New character

[bravesirrobin]

cardinalsin said:

Hmm, is it going to be worth taking Contacts then, if they're geographically quite limited? I was thinking of taking Contacts 5 so would be a fairly large investment.

it's partly about the level of contacts you take. 1 or 2 is going to be geographically quite limited, at 5 they'll be scattered across probably 2 of the 5 sections of creation....

[cardinalsin]

Hm'kay, my current thinking is that a good combination of stats would be:

Manipulation 3/4
Appearance 5

Integrity 3
Presence X (whatever I can afford!)
Investigation 4/5
Stealth 4/5
Larceny 4/5

Contacts 4/5

...plus a pile of combat-related stuff. This will be used for:

- Getting information from informants (Contacts; plus investigation and presence to motivate them)
- Recruiting new informants (Investigation to find them and figure out how to motivate them, Presence to bring them in)
- Going on break & enter missions (Stealth, Larceny)
- Going on undercover missions (Larceny, Presence, Integrity, Investigation)

Anything I'm missing? I did consider socialise, but (a) it's messing wit' me points), and (b) I don't think this character picks up information by hanging out in bars. Also (c) investigation seems to be as good for the relevant applications.

[Blackrat]

Looks good to me.

[bravesirrobin]

the one thing i will mention is that appearance can have a negative impact on stealth rolls.

obviously if you're just hiding then you're fine, but losing yourself in a crowd would be more difficult. and you'll have a very memorable face...

[Blackrat]

Good point, BSR. CS, you could take Larceny disguise charms to help with that.

[cardinalsin]

I was thinking of taking at least the basic disguise charm anyway, so that's cool.

Semi-relatedly, does one always need an ability up to level X to get a charm, or could one have ability up to X-1 with an appropriate specialty? E.g. Larceny 4 with Disguise specialty to get the disguise charm which requires Larceny 5?

[bravesirrobin]

that's a good question - one which i haven't thought about before....

my instinct is to say no, because solar charms can't affect specialties. but i'm willing to listen to other arguments.

[oneiros]

My feeling would be to say 'no' as well (though I'm not the ST) for three reasons:

a) it would require the ST to make more judgement calls about what an "appropriate speciality" was in general which could be awkward;

b) If there were a charm that had a spectrum of uses across the broad category that is the ability, you'd effectively be getting unwarranted use out of something that ought to be specialised (as suggested by dint of having a speciality). Conversely, the ST might say that a Charm is otherwise limited to only uses of that speciality - which would be annoying if you had spent 8xp (or so) to pick up something that was then of limited use.

c) It seems almost a munchkin-way of getting access to Ability 5 charms on the cheap. Consider an in-play scenario where someone with a favoured Ability 3 wants that Ab5 charm. Normal xp cost to raise ability would be 5 + 7 = 12xp; to obtain the speciality twice would only cost 4xp - a threefold reduction in cost and therefore easily able to pay the expense of buying the new charm as well.

Hope that makes sense.

[bravesirrobin]

oneiros said:

My feeling would be to say 'no' as well (though I'm not the ST) for three reasons:

a) it would require the ST to make more judgement calls about what an "appropriate speciality" was in general which could be awkward;

b) If there were a charm that had a spectrum of uses across the broad category that is the ability, you'd effectively be getting unwarranted use out of something that ought to be specialised (as suggested by dint of having a speciality). Conversely, the ST might say that a Charm is otherwise limited to only uses of that speciality - which would be annoying if you had spent 8xp (or so) to pick up something that was then of limited use.

c) It seems almost a munchkin-way of getting access to Ability 5 charms on the cheap. Consider an in-play scenario where someone with a favoured Ability 3 wants that Ab5 charm. Normal xp cost to raise ability would be 5 + 7 = 12xp; to obtain the speciality twice would only cost 4xp - a threefold reduction in cost and therefore easily able to pay the expense of buying the new charm as well.

Hope that makes sense.

that's a pretty convincing argument.

[Blackrat]

Yeah, I pretty much agree with Oneiros. I think it's a nice idea, and might be feasible with a substantial amount of planning, but without that it's just going to bog things down.

[Learned Hand]

cardinalsin said:

Hm'kay, my current thinking is that a good combination of stats would be:

Manipulation 3/4
Appearance 5

Integrity 3
Presence X (whatever I can afford!)
Investigation 4/5
Stealth 4/5
Larceny 4/5

Contacts 4/5

...plus a pile of combat-related stuff. This will be used for:

- Getting information from informants (Contacts; plus investigation and presence to motivate them)
- Recruiting new informants (Investigation to find them and figure out how to motivate them, Presence to bring them in)
- Going on break & enter missions (Stealth, Larceny)
- Going on undercover missions (Larceny, Presence, Integrity, Investigation)

Anything I'm missing? I did consider socialise, but (a) it's messing wit' me points), and (b) I don't think this character picks up information by hanging out in bars. Also (c) investigation seems to be as good for the relevant applications.

Looks good.

[missdixievoom]

I agree, looks like a good character.
Hello cardinalsin!

[cardinalsin]

Right. Here is a first stab at actual character stats.

Physical = 7

Strength 2
Dexterity 5
Stamina 3

Social = 8

Charisma 2
Manipulation 4
Appearance 5

Mental = 5

Intelligence 2
Perception 3
Wits 3

Abilities

Archery
*Martial Arts 5
Melee
*Thrown 3
War

*Integrity 3
Performance
*Presence 4
Resistance 2
Survival

Crafts
*Investigation 5
Lore
Medicine
Occult

*Athletics 3
*Awareness 3
*Dodge 4
*Larceny 5
*Stealth 5

Bureaucracy
Linguistics
Ride
Sail
Socialize

= 42 skills

Charms

Image of Death technique
Wall-climbing technique
Distracting finger-gesture attack
Ebon shadow form
Seven points of weakness strike

Essence Overwhelming (Thrown)
Triple-distance attack technique
Observer-Deceiving attack

Body-Mending Meditation
Ox-Body technique I
Ox-Body technique II

Essence Overwhelming (Investigation)
Evidence-Discerning method
Crafty Observation Method

Essence Overwhelming (Presence)

Essence Overwhelming (Awareness)

Reflex Sidestep Technique
Shadow Over Water
Seven Shadow Evasion

Essence Overwhelming (Larceny)
Flawlessly Impenetrable Disguise
Lock-Opening touch

Easily Overlooked Presence method
Invisible Statue spirit
Mental Invisibility technique

= 25 charms

Backgrounds

Contacts 5
Resources 3

= 8 backgrounds

...I'm a bit worried I've spread myself too thin. But it does seem to be impossible to do everything you want to without being quite specialised, so who cares.

Now all I need to do is, y'know, write an actual character to go with these numbers

PS hi missdixievoom - we've not met, but I admired your tirade against the Dude on AD

[Blackrat]

Not reading through all that, sorry Sure BSR will approve, in which case it should go in the character sheets thread. (As should mine...)

Don't worry about spreading yourself thinly - broad characters are more fun to play than min-maxes, whatever LH would have you believe Or, more seriously, broad or specialised are both fine.

cardinalsin said:

PS hi missdixievoom - we've not met, but I admired your tirade against the Dude on AD

I think we all did

[bravesirrobin]

looks pretty good to me. i haven't checked over all your maths but i'm sure you've added things properly. did you note that putting backgrounds over 3 means that you have to pay two freebies instead of just one?

also, we tend to call the essence blah charms just 1st excellency or 2nd excellency or whatever...