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Post by Learned Hand on Mar 11, 2008 21:07:22 GMT
I'm bored. Let's create charms.
Trance of Solar Perfection
Min: Craft 5 Min Essence: 3
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo OK
Duration: Dramatic Action
Cost: Variable
Prerequisite Charms: Craftsman Needs No Tools
The lawgiver can push all distractions out of mind, to concetrate on what truly matters. This charm supplements a dramatic action to craft an object. Each 2 motes spent on the charm lowers the difficulty of each of the extended craft rolls by 1. If 3 motes is spent per point instead the Solar also counts as having an essence 1 higher for the benefit of any other craft charms used. However the charm requires full dedication to the project. Whilst the object is unfinished the motes remain committed. The Solar also tokes a -1 external penalty to any non-craft actions whilst the project is unfinished, as it is hard to think about anything except the desired outcome of the project.
Master of all Trades Technique
Min: Craft 1 Min Essence: 2
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo OK
Duration: Instant
Cost: 1m per dot of cap added
Prerequisite Charms: Any Craft Excellency
No mortal artisan can rival The Copper Spiders. A solar who has mastered this charm may apply their experience and skills in one area of craftsmanship to any other that he has some knowledge of. Activating this charm allows the solar to increase the maximum dice bonus he can gain from charms when making a craft role. Instead of being capped at [attribute] + [relevant craft ability], the character can choose to cap the bonus at anything up to [attribute] + [highest craft ability], by spending one mote per point of the cap that is raised.
This charm can only be used to enhance craft abilities rated at one dot or higher.
Building on Foundation Knowledge
Min: Craft (mundane) 2, Essence 2
Type: Supplemental
Keywords: Combo OK
Duration: Instant
Cost: Variable
Prerequisite Charms: Master of all Trades Technique
Lawgivers who seek to master or replicate the wonders of the First Age have often built up a significant store of more mundane knowledge in preparation for their forays into more magical fields. This charm supplements a dramatic action using Craft (magical) by mining their stores of the associated mundane Craft ability and drawing out the relevant ideas.
If the Solar has Essence 3, they are also able to utilise the converse and boost their mundane abilities through application of more esoteric techniques.
A Solar may spend 1m per dot of Craft to increase his dice adding limit on a magical craft roll to [Attribute + Craft (magical) + Craft (associated mundane)]. However, this bonus may not increase beyond [Attribute + Craft (magical) + Craft (magical)]. If the Solar is Essence 3+, then a mundane craft roll can be augmented in the same way by the appropriate magical analogue.
Sublime Artisan Meditation
Min: Craft 5 Min Essence: 3
Type: Permanent
Duration: Permanent
Cost: -
Prerequisite Charms: Master of all Trades Technique
Nothing is beyond The Chosen of the Sun; even those things of which they have had no prior experience. This charm permanently enhances a character’s Master of all Trades Technique, allowing it to be used to enhance craft abilities currently rated at 0.
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bravesirrobin
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Post by bravesirrobin on Mar 11, 2008 22:27:35 GMT
Yes and yes - I see no reason why not for either of those.
I've been thinking a lot about a charm which I think you'll like. Will post it a bit later. Basically it has two awesome effects but one slightly negative one.....
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bravesirrobin
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Post by bravesirrobin on Mar 12, 2008 8:03:00 GMT
Trance of Solar Perfection
Min Craft 5 Min Essence 3
Type Supplemental
Duration Dramatic Action
Cost Variable
The lawgiver can push all distractions out of mind, to concetrate on what truly matters. This charm supplements a dramatic action to craft an object. Each 2 motes spent on the charm lowers the difficulty of each of the extended craft rolls by 1. If 3 motes is spent per point instead the Solar also counts as having an essence 1 higher for the benefit of any other craft charms used. However the charm requires full dedication to the project. Whilst the object is unfinished the motes remain committed. The Solar also tokes a -1 external penalty to any non-craft actions whilst the project is unfinished, as it is hard to think about anything except the desired outcome of the project.
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As for the other charm, since it's pointless unless comboed with an excellency anyway, let's make the cost 2m instead of 1m, 1w. But keep it a supplemental charm.
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Post by oneiros on Mar 12, 2008 9:13:14 GMT
First attempt at positing an Exalted charm, which may even fit into this tree somewhere early:
Building on Foundation Knowledge
Min: Craft (mundane) 2, Essence 3
Type: Supplemental
Duration: Dramatic Action
Cost: Variable
Req: Any Craft Excellency
Lawgivers who seek to master or replicate the wonders of the First Age have often built up a significant store of more mundane knowledge in preparation for their forays into more magical fields. This charm supplements a dramatic action using Craft (magical) by mining their stores of the associated mundane Craft ability and drawing out the relevant ideas.
A Solar may spend 2m per dot of Craft (mundane + relevant specialities) to increase his dice adding limit on a magical craft roll to [Attribute + Craft (magical) + Craft (associated mundane)]
--------------------------------------------
Basically, the idea builds on BSR's concept that you can only take a magical craft if you have the mundane analogue as well but allowing you to then capitalise on that knowledge, since there are probably analogous techniques and lore that will serve you well in both.
I'm not sure about the pricing though - could make it a fixed cost to add the Craft(mundane) rating instead. Another option would be to allow the reverse as well.
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bravesirrobin
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Post by bravesirrobin on Mar 12, 2008 9:44:40 GMT
I like that one - and it fits in really nicely with the tree starting with the one LH found on the wiki. they both have the concept of breaking normal dice adding maximums specifically for the craft tree. Though this seems like a dangerous game concept to mess around with, i think if there's any ability I'm going to allow it for it's craft.
I guess the tree would be
Excellency -> Wiki Charm -> O Charm -> Perm enhancement
A couple of modifications to O's charm i'd like to suggest:
Min Essence 2. Can't affect specialties (as they're outside the purview of solar charms). and again, since it requires a combo with and excellency to function at all, i'm going to suggest reducing the cost to 1 mote per point of maximum added.
My charm would probably build on craftsmen needs no tools, as there doesn't seem to be something else obvious that would fit. perhaps it should just have an excellency pre-req.
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Post by Learned Hand on Mar 12, 2008 11:30:30 GMT
I guess the tree would be Excellency -> Wiki Charm -> O Charm -> Perm enhancement Good charm. I'd suggest the tree splits after the wiki charm, one branch leading to O's; one to mine. Each charm builds on the wiki charm but neither appears to build on the other. |
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bravesirrobin
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Post by bravesirrobin on Mar 12, 2008 11:56:21 GMT
makes sense - consider it so.
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Post by oneiros on Mar 12, 2008 12:06:47 GMT
A couple of modifications to O's charm i'd like to suggest: Min Essence 2. Can't affect specialties (as they're outside the purview of solar charms). and again, since it requires a combo with and excellency to function at all, i'm going to suggest reducing the cost to 1 mote per point of maximum added. I'm agreeable to that. Was wondering whether it should be Ess 2 or 3, also given that you need to have at least one dot of Craft (magical analogue) as well. I take it the specialities limit only applies to DBs then? Also, what about the concept of allowing the reverse, that Craft (magical) can raise the limits for Craft (mundane)? And if this builds on the other (as yet unnamed charm), how would the two interact (if at all) i.e. can you then use, say, Craft (Fire) to give a bonus to your Craft (Alchemy) if you combo the two? |
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bravesirrobin
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Post by bravesirrobin on Mar 12, 2008 12:57:04 GMT
Specialties are indeed DB things.
I'll have a think about how it interacts. i'll have a think about comboing the two charms. i don't really want to end up with a situation where you can buy attribute+10 dice for a craft you have no dots in.....
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Post by Learned Hand on Mar 12, 2008 13:21:43 GMT
Specialties are indeed DB things. I'll have a think about how it interacts. i'll have a think about comboing the two charms. i don't really want to end up with a situation where you can buy attribute+10 dice for a craft you have no dots in..... Agreed. It would open the door to take craft 5 (fire) and 3 charms to effectively give your craft 5 in everything. I also think that, given our decriptions, it wouldn't make sense. |
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Post by oneiros on Mar 12, 2008 14:22:45 GMT
I also think that, given our decriptions, it wouldn't make sense. True, and I don't think we're aiming for such cross-craft utility  |
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bravesirrobin
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Post by bravesirrobin on Mar 12, 2008 14:42:56 GMT
Ok, so slight clarification to the text of the charm;
This charm can use a mundane craft to enhance a magical one or a magical one to enhance a mundane one. However it can only be used on linked crafts (eg. fire and magifire), and the bonus to the normal maximum is capped at the value of the craft that is being enhanced.
What this would mean is that you would use the first charm to allow you to add more dice than normal to a craft you haven't maxed out. And the second charm to allow you to reinforce a craft you have maxed out with a second one.
Normal maximum added dice is Attribute+Specific Craft. With charm 1, it becomes Attribute+Highest Craft. With charm 2 it becomes either Attribute+Specific Craft+Associated Craft or Attribute + 2xSpecific Craft, whichever is less)
Let's line up the costs of the charms so that each one is 1m/point. Since they need comboes anyway they're never going to be very cheap. 1 mote per extra point of cap on dice adding limits seems fair.
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Post by oneiros on Mar 12, 2008 15:08:45 GMT
Should we add a line of explanation to the first charm to explicitly say that this does not alter the value of the Craft ability that is being substituted? That way you can't say that: For someone with Fire 5, Water 3, Alchemy 1 - use first charm on Craft (Fire) to substitute for Craft (Alchemy) 1 and then use BoFK to apply Craft (Water) bonus at value +3 (instead of +1 which it would be normally be capped under the revision). Unless we want this to be a valid combo option? My only issue with this is the capping at value of Ability to be enhanced, which is a pain at low ability levels, especially since you have to have 3 charms to get this far and may only get +1 die to your dice pool - i.e. no better than First Excellency. I know a cap is sensible to do so, particularly at high levels of ability where it means that the speed of accumulating successes (and therefore say artifact creation times) could be shorted quite dramatically. Also, means that there is less disincentive to raise your analogue ability. But for situations where say ratio of mundane to magical analogue is 2:1 or 3:1, you might feel somewhat short-changed for what you have spent, esp at lower levels. Note: I'm not *really* arguing against the cap, but on a somewhat biased level it's now not particularly useful for Azir at present. (was planning on spending for Alchemy 1) That said, I'm not sure yet about charm balance, so anything I design at this stage is prob gonna be slightly off. |
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bravesirrobin
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Post by bravesirrobin on Mar 12, 2008 17:11:47 GMT
Should we add a line of explanation to the first charm to explicitly say that this does not alter the value of the Craft ability that is being substituted? That way you can't say that: For someone with Fire 5, Water 3, Alchemy 1 - use first charm on Craft (Fire) to substitute for Craft (Alchemy) 1 and then use BoFK to apply Craft (Water) bonus at value +3 (instead of +1 which it would be normally be capped under the revision). I think that is explicit in the charm, but yes. I think we also need to make it clear that these charms all affect the cap of dice provided by 1st excellency (or equivalently the successes from 2nd excellency) - they don't by themselves, provide dice. in the example quoted (and ignoring attributes momentarily) the normal dice limit from 1stEx would be 5 for fire, 3 for water and 1 for alchemy. using the first charm makes these 5, 5 and 5. using the second charm as well would make them 5, 6 and 6. (you'd still have to pay for the dice seperately). adding 6 dice to what is normally a 1 dice pool is pretty awesome. basically the first charm is the one that means you can add more dice because you understand crafting really well. the second you can add more dice because mundane and magical crafts have overlap. however, if you don't understand one of the crafts that well (ie have a low rating) you can't exploit the overlap so well. basically the first charm enhances weak crafts as long as you have a strong one. the second one is designed to have greater benefits for crafts that are already strong, though it still has some benefits for wekaer crafts. the principle is, charms kick ass, but actually having mastery of a craft is better in the long run. the more i think about it though the more confused i become, so this time tomorrow i may disagree entirely with what i just said. |
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Post by Learned Hand on Mar 12, 2008 19:47:22 GMT
I'm confused to. I've modified my first post so it includes the charms we have so far, as I currently understand them. Let me know which bits I've got wrong.
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