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Post by Learned Hand on Feb 20, 2008 16:01:33 GMT
Also, I should point out that I do enjoy rules arguments too - they're just not my favourite part of the game. I'm just a little concerned that this campaign might be getting bogged down in rules discussions and thus might not progress as fast or as smoothly as it could. One possible solution to that is to check, sooner rather than later, that we're all expecting / desiring the same things from the campaign. (I feel this is something we should be doing more in general anyway.) However, if no-one else shares my concerns then it's pointless, obviously  Can I point out that I draw the line at arguing about the rules of rule-arguments  |
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Post by Blackrat on Feb 20, 2008 17:37:25 GMT
I think the canonical craft rules are only just debatably the correct side of too underpowered. I'd be very wary of anything that might push them the wrong way. Ok. So does this mean BSR still needs to justify his approach before you're happy to try it out? He did say... ... which seems to be fine with you from the figures we've discussed above. So can we just try it out and see? |
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missdixievoom
Junior Geek
crunchy on the outside crunchy on the inside
Posts: 122
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Post by missdixievoom on Feb 20, 2008 20:24:32 GMT
Just to let you know I am reading this, I'm just not contributing because I really don't understand.
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Post by Learned Hand on Feb 20, 2008 23:47:56 GMT
I think the canonical craft rules are only just debatably the correct side of too underpowered. I'd be very wary of anything that might push them the wrong way. Ok. So does this mean BSR still needs to justify his approach before you're happy to try it out? He did say... ... which seems to be fine with you from the figures we've discussed above. So can we just try it out and see? Meh - I'm not crafting anything. But BSR is suggesting a move away from canon and I wanted to point out what I think is a problem with it, and which I think may have been overlooked. Simply that adding more dots may render craft more difficult than it already is, which is plenty-difficult enough. If BSR wants to go ahead, having heard my concerns, then fair enough. We all seem to be in agreement regarding the timing. |
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bravesirrobin
Geek of Geeks
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Post by bravesirrobin on Feb 23, 2008 14:41:51 GMT
Well it looks like we're being productive - for the record i think artifact crafting should be quicker and easier. my proposed solution to this is to homebrew charms or similar. but there do need to be speed bumps, of a kind, before accessing certain things.
There are aspects of the rules which I just don't like very much. One of them being that in canon you can do most things with the 5 mundane crafts - except for very specific craft(magitech) and craft(genesis) stuff. though a lot of things require thaumaturgic rituals/arts as well.
i see two approaches to this. either we strip away magical crafts entirely and do everything with the base 5 - possibly with some perm charms that enable gradually higher level stuff and include the thaumaturgy. this doesn't feel right to me.
or we formalise crafts more carefully - which is the approach i outlined above - basically similar to the systems of sorcery and martial arts, except rather than investing all points in one ability and many charms, points need to be invested in few charms but many abilities.
Basically constructing any simple magical object would require one craft, the more complex the object gets the more crafts might be required. So a 5dot daiklave would require Craft(Magifire) whereas a 5dot warstrider would require Craft(Magifire) and Craft(Magiair).
i like thaumaturgy and i like that it exists, but i'm not a huge fan of the systems. and what i would like is for anything that thaumurtugy can do to be replicated more simply for exalts by charms/abilities or whatever.
i don't want to hamstring ferric - and part of the problem is that i haven't seen a character sheet, or had much of a conversation with MDV about what she wants to do with her craftiness. but my intention is to make things easier where possible and clearer where not. and to make all dots useful. i'm trying to makeover an area of the system which has always felt odd to me, so that it works more solidly.
and i think it's highly likely that we'll want to rearrange some of the points in craft for ferric in the light of these clarifications - but hopefully in the long run that will help things....
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Post by Learned Hand on Feb 23, 2008 16:08:55 GMT
I pretty much agree with everything you just said, including your preference for option (2). I was just being a little bit protective of MDV and the thought that you might want to make crafting harder.
Which is apparently the opposite of what you want to do.
...
I'll be quiet now
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bravesirrobin
Geek of Geeks
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Post by bravesirrobin on Feb 23, 2008 16:38:57 GMT
;D Yay for clear communication.
In other news I really need suggestions for the proper names of Craft(Magifire) and Craft(Magiair). For further explanation of their functions - Magifire is basically just smelting but using the magical materials, but also about the control of large forces in an object. Magiair - includes magical crystals, the exalted equivalent of electronics and anything with mechanisms requiring a lot of very fine detail.
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Post by Learned Hand on Feb 23, 2008 17:25:31 GMT
Magiair sounds like it could me magitech
Magifire could be craft (magical materials) in the sense that any large-scale manipulation of the 5mm will fall under it.
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Post by Learned Hand on Feb 23, 2008 17:39:20 GMT
Well it looks like we're being productive - for the record i think artifact crafting should be quicker and easier. my proposed solution to this is to homebrew charms or similar. but there do need to be speed bumps, of a kind, before accessing certain things. From the unofficial exalted wiki: Cost: --; Mins: Craft 1, Essence 1; Type: Permanent Keywords: None Prerequisite Charms: None The Exalted's experience in one craft gives him a basic knowledge that can be used for others through the essential symmetry of Essence-- and the superlative power of Solar mental and physical might. For any use of an Excellency or Excellency-derived Charm where the limit is determined in part or whole by the Solar's Craft rating, that rating is considered to be equal to the character's highest Craft rating. This does not affect rerolls made with the Third Excellency. |
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bravesirrobin
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Post by bravesirrobin on Feb 23, 2008 17:50:29 GMT
So basically the charm allows you to add attribute+highest craft rating dice to any craft roll, rather than attribute+specifc craft rating?
sounds good - but i'd make it supplemental rather than permanent. and probably cost 1m,1w. and it wouldn't apply to any crafts rated at zero.....
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bravesirrobin
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Post by bravesirrobin on Aug 26, 2008 14:15:58 GMT
bump cos SH was asking about this.
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